Envi mix in roc?

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jamie_macdonald
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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by jamie_macdonald » 11 Nov 2010 16:38

One line is all that is needed (to the point) :thumbsup:

goenisch
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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by goenisch » 11 Nov 2010 17:23

i' m really pissed of about this decision !

why can' t Envi RoC Maps just get the points of normal stadium tracks?
that would be the best solution and everyone would be happy

A lot of Ladder Admins weren' t quite sure about this topic! So why cannot we just test it?
It' s nice in addition to "normal" stadium rocs and so it is a really nice idea to earn ladder points in this way (btw i am a stadium player and played on the Envi RoC server the last two weeks. I' m fascinated about the idea and in comparision to normal stadium roc servers, there is a lot of variety in these tracks

so, nadeo, please think about it!
just do it for the biggest part of tm - the stadium players!

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by dudies » 11 Nov 2010 22:04

Why we can't play Envi Roc like the others who plays United? The tracks are techs and with long length. Only cause the tops from United are afraid lose their positions? cause good players from stadium (that has united) are starting playing this mixed maps. I think its a revolution. Now all players can get points like in FAIR WAY. And i can't understand.. Stadium IS A ENVIRONMENT FROM UNITED PACK so...
The players who play there (on Envi) has United, but we aren't forced play United. And players from Stadium's paid (who has united) have more difficult to get points on Stadium servers. After 93.9 ladder, its start give less point that is taken from us on sunday..

>>>
1. the points given will overload the ladder? UPGRADE IT.. If you don't see, day by day, the trackmania community are becoming bigger. So more days, and it will be necessary upgrade anyway.
2. the tracks are more easy.. and they play better. No, the tracks aren't so easy, you have to train some hours to be regular in it. And if we play well, its cause we play well stadium, we train stadium. Like as all from United that are good in United cause plays more this kind of environment.

When you says: We dont accept envimix maps for RoC usage and this is the Final Decision.
Why? Why you can't accept it? Give a good reason. Only cause its more fair to stadium players who has united and aren't FORCED to play United maps?

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by GAS.Panos » 12 Nov 2010 13:28

dudies wrote: When you says: We dont accept envimix maps for RoC usage and this is the Final Decision.
Why? Why you can't accept it? Give a good reason.
Firstly, i am not Nadeo ! I am just another Ladder Server Moderator as the other 5.
Secondly, do you know that there is a list (rule) with all validated maps which can be used in RoC servers ? I think you do !
viewtopic.php?f=132&t=20490

So, envimix maps are not in this list because they haven't been validated or Nadeo doesn't think are suitable for them (RoC servers) like many other maps.
Finally, this is another Nadeo rule like many other exist, so accept it as you have done so far.
Last edited by GAS.Panos on 12 Nov 2010 13:31, edited 1 time in total.

Mikey
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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by Mikey » 12 Nov 2010 13:31

One Reason is because enviroment mixed maps are not an official or standard feature of the game nadeo created. It is a hack.
Nadeo's decision seems logical enough to me. And we can all play and enjoy env-mix maps on other servers ! And be gratefull for this (I am)! Because I'm actually suprised nadeo didnt release a forced update to prevent env-mix maps when they first appeared.

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by jamie_macdonald » 12 Nov 2010 14:49

Mikey wrote:One Reason is because enviroment mixed maps are not an official or standard feature of the game nadeo created. It is a hack.
Nadeo's decision seems logical enough to me. And we can all play and enjoy env-mix maps on other servers ! And be gratefull for this (I am)! Because I'm actually suprised nadeo didnt release a forced update to prevent env-mix maps when they first appeared.
I agree completely mikey! ...in fact they openly support such innovations, but as it's a community invention and not a "tried and tested" method of mapping (least in the long term) the decision is just plain common sense,

It will be different in future in TM2 with the block submission, even ET will have a block submission part on the portal for authorising use of particular tested block modifications, these will then be able to be used in league mapping and also then we hope, official for RoC usage (that is if RoC will even be in TM2).

That's not to say Nadeo will not announce in future that uses of these maps is OK, all i can suggest is patience and understanding. :thumbsup:

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by doc_eisenfaust » 12 Nov 2010 17:15

Mikey you say they arent a offical standart and it is a hack!
But why you can use these maps on other ranked server?
I dont see any differens between "Big competitions" tracks (like it is on the Playerpage) and Tracks which are approved by nadeo(Alinoa)! That Tracks also "Big competitions" tracks only approved by nadeo.
Otherwise you have to ban these envitracks from all Ladder Server.
But i want to hear an answer of Alinoa because she is the only one who can say something to that.

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by goenisch » 12 Nov 2010 21:00

furthermore, the RS is a competition^^
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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by Dr. Kaputnik » 12 Nov 2010 21:18

goenisch wrote:furthermore, the RS is a competition^^
No, it was just a fun event.

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by Zooz » 17 Nov 2010 18:47

dudies wrote:Why we can't play Envi Roc like the others who plays United? The tracks are techs and with long length. Only cause the tops from United are afraid lose their positions?
Don't be stupid, I helped invent envmixing and helped make the first set of envmix tracks (Revelation Skirmish). Of course I would like to play it :D
I also think RS counts as a competition, although the tracks were too short...

But Nadeo makes the rules for the ladder.

Also, the tracks on the Maniacs Envmix RoC server were pretty bad, you'd have a better chance with some quality leaguestyle maps :D

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by jamie_macdonald » 17 Nov 2010 19:28

Revelation Skirmish was an awesome competition, enjoyed that as much as the crazy world cup, perfect for TM's fun environment and a break from the serious stuff...

...allthough of course even the fun runs quickly turn into a good old fashioned TM battle :D

I don't see the problem with nadeo's decision above atall. it's a bit impatient and rude to presume something so new and untested would be included in the most official part of the game so quick! (especially whilst the team is busy providing us with what will be a minblowingly cool TM2!)

As above, patience...

...There is nothing stated to say this won't get the go ahead in future, merely they are not prepared/nor have the time to consider allowing them for RoC now, so just chill and ask Nicely! cause being rude about the rules will get you nowhere :thumbsup:

Now discuss it in a polite and patient manner?

Long live TM awesomeness <3

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by Alinoa » 18 Nov 2010 16:08

Thanks to Jamie to remember the manner of discussing in the forums :wink:
The main reason of not allowing envimix tracks is this is not a standard feature of the game, this is not the game developed. The envimix tracks is more like a new mod and the ladder can't represent the best pilots of each mod. The ladder needs to obey to strict rules to mean something. Tracks are getting longer, lol or stunt tracks not accepted on all servers and so on. I won't remember the rules as you must know them.
We didn't allow players to run the envimix tracks in other ranked servers. Players decided to run them. We will edit the ladder rules to clarify this.
Some players would like to have a better balance between the stadium environment and the other ones. We had set a new dichotomy to improve it. At the beginning, the ladder points won on a TrackMania United server were multiplied by 2 and then 1,5. Now, two only-stadium pilots are in the 40 top. We are going to change this dichotomy again and observe the followed consequences.
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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by adrijk » 18 Nov 2010 17:29

Alinoa Thanks for going to think carefully about the ranking Stadium, is important because I know those two players and who want to climb higher, but the stadium lp prevent it, like me, that I should spend these two weeks to play envimix Stadium because I thought that would win not enough.
I now wanted to make a complaint to the removal of mixed server for Roc, but seeing you will see the stadium lp, and try to do something to have more, do not bother
Thanks good afternoon Alinoa

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by Zooz » 18 Nov 2010 21:16

I know that it's a logical decision, I just have to defend the invention a bit! :P
I don't see major issues with allowing it in lower parts of the ladder. There aren't many rules there, and it doesn't specifically show who the top drivers are (not that any part of the ladder does). Also, you still need to drive for the points! You get to take the cars for a spin on different blocks than usual, it still requires similar skills, and some people enjoy it!

The main problem that I see with envmix and the ladder actually wasn't mentioned yet, it is that the points are given based on the environment, not on the car. The latter would be more logical if you wanted to actually give points fairly on this kind of track.

Also, it was pretty polite for a post by me, imo :mrgreen:

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Re: Envi mix in roc?

Post by jamie_macdonald » 18 Nov 2010 21:30

Yeah that was definately polite for ya hehe.. It definately should be allowed in a majority of servers. ...but suppose until nadeo ratify it then RoC is definately a no i would say.

Also just incase, the patience and politeness comments were for above zooz's post. ...as far as i'm concerned he can be as blunt as is needed (it comes in handy sometimes) :thumbsup:

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