440-TEAM KOFS USA track pack

Find here all the tracks of the Community. For more tracks you can go on Trackmania Exchange : http://www.tm-exchange.com

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MistaObvious
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Post by MistaObvious » 19 Jun 2006 13:26

Mistral wrote:ZHaDuM never claimed to be the author of any of this tracks or published them on TMX as his own tracks.
Just because they're not on TMX doesn't mean he didn't redistribute them all the same. Fact is this wouldn't even be an issue if they weren't packaged and distributed right here in this thread. If this were a collection of 440 tracks that he himself made, or with the permission of the author of the tracks included, there wouldn't be a problem. But included into one zip file is 440 tracks, some of which belong to other authors, and regardless of a bug in the game's editor has his name all over them. Asking permission to redistribute these tracks is the very least he could have done.
Isnt this still a community? Reminds me more to the Inquisition nower days!

Internet is going to suck more and more,
Mistral
So you think a community should be composed of people plagiarizing other people's work? You think a community should be people who don't stand up against this sort of thing? Look, I'm usually a nice guy, but with a comment like "internet is going to suck more and more" all I can tell you is to save some money each month and stop using the internet if that's how you feel. The internet isn't meant to be a place for people to plagiarize other people's work, no matter the excuse. If it were just on his server, that'd be one thing (and I'd understand to a point why he did it), but including it in a zip file distributed on a forum for the game itself is just wrong, plain and simple.

scala
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Post by scala » 22 Jun 2006 01:18


tubb
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Post by tubb » 22 Jun 2006 11:41

two of my tracks were included too,
(Short + Sweet)
(Servere)

i didnt even know they had been modded until a member from my clan told me!

They were some of my first tracks, and im quite proud of them.

if i had been asked about the tracks being modded in advance, i would probly have said it was fine, however not even recieving a comment or PM annoys me

Tubb

bkb98
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Post by bkb98 » 22 Jun 2006 22:27

Easy solution to this... put passwords on ur tracks ;)
It won't hurt anyone from playing it ... won't stop the d/ls... and won't stop the awards.
Most ppl won't even know u have a password on it.
Plus nobody will be able to change your track without either asking u or guessing the pass.

Also I have a few tracks running on Zhadum's server .. but I mod'd them myself and sent them to him and he didn't complain or whine he if anything was happy he didn't have to do it. Also I'm not defending Zha's actions or antyhing and not taking sides but I always knew the tracks weren't his because he left the author names after the name of the track. :o

I don't race there at 440 all the time but I do stop in occasionally and have done so for quite some time (since it started I think). And he's always done it this way he never that I know of deleted the author name entirely from view of the players.
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scottmc
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Post by scottmc » 22 Jun 2006 22:43

Just to make sure the original posting is put into context, Zhad posted this when TM-Exchange Nations went down and no one was able to download tracks from it. He provided this pack so that people would have access to tracks they may not have already played. I always password my tracks before posting on there so that no one make changes to them without my knowledge. I did take one of my tracks and add a mod to it and then post on tm-exchange and let Zhad know about the mod'd version and he added it to his server. It was the first and might still be the only "MOD" server running. I've only played on it a few times but it's nice that even if you don't have the mods installed he took the time to make the .loc files and added them to the tracks so that the mods would be downloaded to players PCs as they played the tracks. It was a shocker when I saw the first one show up.. check it out sometime.
-scottmc

dalefan_01
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Post by dalefan_01 » 23 Jun 2006 00:10

There's 2 ways of stopping someone for adding a texture mod, or anything else.....
1. Lock your tracks - simple enough, or if you don't lock your tracks include a readme with it stating that the track is not to be touched for any reason without permission.
2. Take the person(s) that mod your track(s) to court. Yes this is a case of personal copyright infringement. I could link a thread(if they still have the thread saved) where P.C.I. has been discussed to death, if you'd like to see it I'll see if I can dig it up. But to sum it up.....Anything one makes, it is their ownership. It doesn't matter if it has a ® or © or not. BTW A judge would just laugh at you for something so damn petty, if it even made it that far. I'm guessing it wouldn't. It would cost too much for you and the taxpayers to worry about a track from a videogame. Unless you are going to pay for an official copyright, you are wasting your time.......go buy some kleenex.

There are some tracks that are on TMX, that if the "real life" track owners wanted to sue the TMX track maker, they could. There's alot of NASCAR, F1....tracks available. And I can tell you from seeing it with my own eyes, the FIA are STRONGLY against someone making anything that has to do with their series without any permission. Many mods for other games have been halted because FIA threatened to sue. I don't follow F1 so I don't know if the FIA owns tracks like NASCAR does, so that could be a null point. NASCAR has filed papers against a mod team because the team used the name and shape of a copywritten track.

And I can be safe to assume that about 99.9% of those in here whining about their stuff being 'stolen', have 'stolen' stuff and put it on something of theirs, without any permission. Whether it be from a friend, company...

In the mod I made, I have my name all over every single texture. That way if somebody takes something that I created and makes any kind of profit off it(without my concent) then I can get a money from it by going to court. Am I going to cry a river because somebody used a texture for use in their mod? Hell no I'm not. I would be nice to get permission first, but am I losing out on anything....Nope

Do I think it's wrong what Zhad does with tracks? No. I don't see anything wrong with adding a texture to a track for those that get tired of the default stuff and take no credit for the track itself. I can't even begin to think how many times Zhad has been told "all your tracks are awesome!!" and his reply is always "I didn't make the track, just added the texture mod, the author's name is next to the track name." The track layouts don't get messed with, the authors' names are shown. If you have a track on there you should feel thankful(for lack of a better word) that your track is being run on one of the busiest servers.

Some of you whiners need to step away from the computer once in awhile and go out in the real world. You will see that this type of thing happens quite alot. I even sent ideas to a game company and a few of the ideas were put into patches. I didn't cry about it by not getting paid for using my ideas. Being out in the real world helps one mature, most people on here really need it. :idea:

scala
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Post by scala » 23 Jun 2006 12:27

FANTASTIC!
add password and update track on tmx......
which means a new author record is required and all the records held by other racers are also void.
all that time and effort by other players and i wasted due to one **** arrogance and inability to ask first.

i hereby formally request that my tracks be removed from the zip pack and the 440 server because you absolutly do NOT have my permission to mod them!

anyone else wishing to mod my tracks i ask you to contact me first at which time i will be more than agreable.

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SL@Z
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Post by SL@Z » 23 Jun 2006 20:29

I agree with Dalefan01(Kickin' Asphalt is my fav mod!), except for one thing: If there were no choice of passwording a track, I could understand, but the option to password a track exists, and if the author chooses NOT to password it, and the track gets altered, then that is the caveat. Open code, means OPEN.

Another thing: I'm sure there were only intentions of improving the TMN community--specifically on USA servers--and it worked. The server apparently has the largest draw in US servers, so more people play your trax here than most other places. I consider it a privelege to have my trax on this server--with NO password, so hack them up all you want.(you'll find my trax here on TM Exchange.)

Remember: it's just a game...

In the end, we all need to chill out and communicate more. This forum, TM Exchange, etc. exist for this reason. I would like to see many more collaborative efforts on track design as a result of this--I wouldn't mind just making intro movies for other people's trax. So, let's put this behind us, communicate more, and resolve to become a better community for it.


Peace,

KOFSSL@Z

Zooz
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Post by Zooz » 25 Jun 2006 11:09

Passwords can very easily be hex edited out, so they are pointless with criminals like Zhadum.
Try releasing someone elses work under your own name without asking permission in any other gaming community, and you'll be banned. This topic should at least be deleted or the link removed. Where are the mods :(

MistaObvious
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Post by MistaObvious » 25 Jun 2006 14:08

Ok, my last bit of input into this and any other thread that turns into a flame-fest:

Dale, sarcasm isn't going to solve anything, but thanks for playing. Truth be told, no one really puts that much stock into what they've done with any game - with exception of full conversion modders - that they wish it was possible to sue someone else for infringement. However, going back through history on teh interwebz, you might have noticed a bit of a unspoken law come up amongst gamers. Simply said, if someone released something and someone else changed that and re-released it without permission with some sort of reference back to the original author that person would generally be flamed into non-existence. Actually, let me correct myself - it's not even just gaming. Going back to my early days of open source coding I remember a lof of this. Back when JavaScript was the extent of DHTML and coders came up with completely original ideas. Yea, stealing was so easy, but re-releasing it to others without some explanation and credit back to the original author... good luck.

So you see, it's fine that he wanted to mod these tracks for his server. But 2 issues arise: first, not all track authors want to see their tracks modded. When someone makes a track, they might have a specific vision for it. If someone comes along and decides to mod it, it could be offensive to have that vision ignored or abolished. Secondly, if you want to redistribute anything - for whatever reason - it's generally good practice to first let that person know you're redistributing their work and secondly provide the credit to the author. It's great that Zhadum has been including names of authors in the track's name, but when redistributing these tracks did he 1) ask the author's permission and 2) provide some warning that some of these tracks belong to other authors?
example wrote:Hi, since TMX has been down and will be for days, I thought I'd provide this archive of all the tracks on my server. It contains tracks from a veriety of different track authors and I've modded these tracks so their name is in the track's name, not the author slot.
I know, it seems like something stupid to be anal over, but could have avoided the whole situation altogether. While I don't have any tracks of my own in that list, I completely understand why people are getting upset. I've been watching this sort of thing happen since I started coding years and years ago.

Now, from the other side of the argument authors should have passworded their tracks from the start. I have friends that don't password theirs and still I wonder why. Since the option's there, it's just good practice and this whole conversation is a pure example of why. At this point it's like crying over spilled milk, tho, so just ask that he remove your tracks and move on. Yea, passwording your own tracks and reuploading them might seem like something you shouldn't have to do, but it's obvious you do. If you're worried about invalidating records then just write a note of apology with a tiny explanation and I'm sure people will understand.

dalefan_01
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Post by dalefan_01 » 25 Jun 2006 19:46

It's not sarcasm, it's the truth. You act like I've never seen or heard this stuff happen before. All this is, is just a moral issue.

From day 1.....you had a CHOICE to password your tracks. If you weren't worried about a simple texture mod or someone removing pieces etc then, why do you get upset about it months later? Because someone put up a zip while the 'central' track downloading site was down? Everyone isn't FORCED to see the mods on the tracks. That's the good point about this game, you aren't forced to see things unless you have P2P on.The crying because of an added texture mod is pointless.

I know of many gaming commuinties that if linked here, they would die laughing because of the crying going on in here about tracks. Try making a map for any FPS game. Try making a track for any racing game. See how long it takes without any in-game stuff.......it takes many months to do, there is a track for rFactor that I've raced on where the author spent over 1 YEAR creating it. Not to mention that most other games, you need to shell out about $3,000+ for programs just to create things if you want something to look good. Freeware and some cheap programs will do the job, but not as good. Comparing TMN to other games is like comparing apples and oranges, just making a track for example....1-2 days compared to many months :lol: . TMN is free all the way around, other games you have to PAY.

Everyones morals are different. As you, me and many others have seen in other communities, yes one would get flamed for something like this. But instead of getting into flame wars, do something about it. 1. Protect your stuff, one thing that you CAN NOT do in any game that I have played from what I can remember, unless you are a master coder that will allow a game to open files but needs a password for a user to open. 2. Court for copyright infringement. Note my post above about this. Morally is it wrong? Depends on how people think. For me, if I wanted to add a texture mod to a TMN track, I'd do it...and do it the same way Zhad did, with the author name showing in the title. The author still gets credit for the 'dirty work', they did not spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to create the track, they did not spend months to create the track, finally they did not password it. No password on a game that you have the option to do it in means open game for all. The author loses absolutely NOTHING when a track gets a texture mod. Removing, adding and moving pieces is a different story. Messing with the layout is wrong. There is a huge difference between moving pieces and adding a few dds files.

I've mainly been part of the Papyrus sim racing community since their very first title, Indianapolis 500: The Simulation (1989) I have seen people get flamed for stealing, changing, adding......others' stuff. It's pretty rare to see. Other games, it may be more common. I don't usually read many boards other than stuff I've already been a part of. Not to be a put down to anyone, but, in that community you don't really see as much whining and crying as you do here. Because they are a more mature group that spend thousands of dollars( for steering wheels, computer upgrades, even mini simulators in their home) to enjoy a game. Not worry about ranking or to have stuff messed with. There's like an 'unwritten' written code that all follow about using other peoples stuff. And it's mainly the new guys that break it.


All-in-all the only ones that have a RIGHT to any crying is NADEO( or game developers in a broad sense ) The people adding things to the games(text. mods, car shapes...) are breaking the EULA that they agreed to before installing the game. Unless there's an official kit of some sort from the Devs. TMN allows alot of stuff, but I don't recall seeing a button to press to add a full texture mod like the way you can add signs, car shapes etc. THEY are the ones making money because of modders. Albeit probably a small amount. That brings me back to these tracks. The authors are out nothing by having a texture modded track on a busy server.

If you are worried about pointless track awards from TMX....From my time on on the 440 server, Zhad states that these are tracks from there and if they like it to go award it. Does it really matter if it has a texture mod? NO. So crying because you are out of nothing just makes you look like a spoiled teenager that doesn't get their way all the time. Be mature ask to have stuff removed and go back to fix the mistake that YOU made. This is not a mistake by the ones who add mods to tracks.

Being mature about things will take you a long way in life. If you act like a kid you'll know how dirt tastes.

Story closed. :P

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SL@Z
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Post by SL@Z » 25 Jun 2006 20:28

Zooz wrote:Passwords can very easily be hex edited out, so they are pointless with criminals like Zhadum.
Try releasing someone elses work under your own name without asking permission in any other gaming community, and you'll be banned. This topic should at least be deleted or the link removed. Where are the mods :(
First of all, no passwords were ever hacked. Second of all, the work was not released under his own name--the track author appears in the title. He took NO credit for any of the trax, and recommended people award the authors' work. And third, calling him a criminal is ridiculous--there's been no trial, and no conviction here. You're only slandering him. He's innocent until proven guilty, in my book.

The only mistake he made was not communicating with the authors for the trax, nor was he obligated to if the only safeguard wasn't in use(password).

Please, stick to criticizing ethics, not making judgements.

Peace,

KOFSSL@Z

MistaObvious
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Post by MistaObvious » 25 Jun 2006 21:12

dalefan_01 wrote:Being mature about things will take you a long way in life. If you act like a kid you'll know how dirt tastes.

Story closed. :P
And yet here you are.... if the defense is unnecessary, then why are you defending it? Uh, yea, move on plz... kthxbye

scala
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Post by scala » 25 Jun 2006 21:41

i have hypothetical gnomes in my garden......
i leave them out there to make my garden look colourful.
i TRUST that the people going past will admire my gnomes.
i do not wish to hypothetically chain my gnomes up in a kinky fetish dungeon type way to protect them.

i would hope most people will say (as they walk past) look at those finely crafted gnomes, look how colourful they are.
not hey look unprotected gnomes! im having them, a bit of paint and they'll look cool in my garden.

to use an english term usually refered to car theft, zAhDump TOOK WITHOUT OWNERS CONSENT.
bollox to the other issues like tmx down, getting tracks to wider audience, good of the game, good for authors etc. there just diversionary tactics to try and steer the discussion away from the fact that at the end of the day zahdum made one almighty blunder.

theres only one way to end this thread. zahdum has to apolagise here for his mistake and then contact every trackmaker whos track is either on the server or in the track zip and ask their permission to use it in a modified context.

dalefan_01
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Post by dalefan_01 » 25 Jun 2006 22:30

What is the mistake Zhadum made? Or anyone else that mods an open track?
The mistake is made my the TRACK MAKERS by not locking their tracks. Don't you think if track makers WANTED permission there would be a password? It's not that hard to understand. Unless you can't understand words with more than 1 syllable.
TOOK WITHOUT OWNERS CONSENT
Took what? So it's TMX's fault for being a central place for stealing? Damn them, better call the internet police :lol: Consent IS given as soon as it's uploaded for everyone to use. Put 2 & 2 together.... :idea:

If you cared enough to protect anything you make, own... don't you do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't get tampered with? I know I lock my house, car, make sure nobody can get my money, I make sure my kids are protected. By leaving stuff open, you should just have a big sign saying 'do whatever you want now, I'll cry about it later'. Then when it get messed with you are going to crawl into a corner like a little baby and cry about it because you can't have it your way.

And yet here you are.... if the defense is unnecessary, then why are you defending it? Uh, yea, move on plz... kthxbye
And yet, you still have no clue. Did I use too big of words for you? I'm not defending anything or anyone. To beat a dead horse, The Image trackmakers are at fault for not using their brains(or lack thereof). It's nothing but a moral issue adding to whats already done. When it comes to morals, there is no right or wrong. Just because Joe Schmoe prays to a popcicle stick doesn't mean every other person in the world has to.
You're MistaObvious, can't be more obvious than that. Is it yummy?Image GG :roll:

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