BUGS IN FOREVER

General Discussion about Trackmania Nations ESWC.

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kama
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by kama » 11 Sep 2008 22:40

Sorry Zooz, my apologies, but you're absolutely right, I should go back to playing Legos.....
tma wrote: Though I'll grant you one thing; whining about this is probably fruitless. I highly doubt there'll be a physics/block-fix. In any case, everything in this thread's been discussed before..
I therefore rest my case. Seems somebody got the point at last... Now maybe we can all go back to driving, bugs, anomalies and flying sauce-pans included. Save for me, I'll stick to Legos..... :roflol:

Nice thread :1
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by Yam » 12 Sep 2008 00:43

kama wrote: Like U say Yam, difference of 0.1 on a 1.00.00 time is..... insignificant no ?¿
Ask any good driver who has top10 times on rerun.. 0.10 is a huge amount of time, when the records are seperated by .01 of a second.

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by Trackmaniack » 12 Sep 2008 04:35

In coast, maybe....but not in a decent stadium track. By the way, JWH, how come it is that I've never heard of you, even though you claim to be an ESWC-caliber player?
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by JWH » 12 Sep 2008 06:50

Trackmaniack wrote:In coast, maybe....but not in a decent stadium track. By the way, JWH, how come it is that I've never heard of you, even though you claim to be an ESWC-caliber player?
I don't really feel like bragging here but i participated in the ESWC 2008 in San Jose just a few weeks ago, and qualified as 2nd in my country. I'm quite known in the world of the actual players that compete in the ESL Premiership and STC/NC for example.

Coming back to the times, 0.10 is really quite alot in Stadium. When you see the records in the current ongoing competitions ( new map pack every week ) you will see that at the end of the week, the top10 is only seperated by about .10 time difference. But that's heading offtopic!

Back to the bugs and all other scientific explanations!

P.S, could the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) have had any influence on the anomalies?

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by tma » 12 Sep 2008 07:38

kama wrote:Sorry Zooz, my apologies, but you're absolutely right, I should go back to playing Legos.....
I think you misunderstood him.. That jab was aimed at me/kaligay/JWH for being such elitist pricks :P
Trackmaniack wrote:By the way, JWH, how come it is that I've never heard of you, even though you claim to be an ESWC-caliber player?
He didn't bring that up. I took the liberty of pointing it out to you when you claimed he couldn't tell the difference between a bug and his own poor driving :roll:

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by kama » 12 Sep 2008 15:50

tma wrote:
kama wrote:Sorry Zooz, my apologies, but you're absolutely right, I should go back to playing Legos.....
I think you misunderstood him.. That jab was aimed at me/kaligay/JWH for being such elitist pricks :P
nonononono... U misunderstood me: that's irony man!!!!!! You don't seriously expect me to go back to Legos, looooooooooooool...
Besides, I now Zooz a bit now, when he is serious and when he is making fun, so no chance I could really think he was not making fun when he said I was a damn random :roflol:

Wait , what U say Zooz, U were not making fun?¿¿ Damn Zooz ;)
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by n!sliVer » 18 Nov 2008 22:24

kama wrote:Frostbeule (who never apparently posted about a bug that he surely should have found by now), Lign , Carl, Xymph...... the list is too long.
Break given , you can go now!

Srsly, what the hell are you talking about :O ?
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by Chapo » 18 Nov 2008 23:01

We , who play competitions on tmnf, know much better how guys like frostbeule carl lign etc react... and they sure moan when they get a bug.
You guys should try ESL - Dominhead, and if you never get any landing bug on one part of the track, that just means you don't play it competitively enough.
Florent can say whatever he wants, I think we, players of tmnf, who play it since its release (zooz can't say he does in that case) and who have to train hours and hours on maps for competitions and we, who also played tmn before tmnf, know what we say. If we say there are much more bugs than before then it means there are much more bugs , why would we lie?
+ that's strange but landing bug moaning started a few hours after the release of tmnf, that must mean something. It's not the only bug in tmnf, why do dizains of people moan about the same bug a few hours after the release of tmnf if the bug didn't appear more often than on tmn ?

Edit : There are numerous examples where in theory something should happen a way and in aplication it happens another way... Well that's the case here.

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by kama » 19 Nov 2008 12:49

ok...
Let's say U're right for the sake of the post: There are more bugs, we moan and groan more often about crash landings, speed sucking and other bouncing bugs. Agreed! We also started to moan about these bugs in Nations, which did not even have dirt!!
So yes, they exist, you want to call them bugs fine. We know they are not (as a bug is a programming default, which is not the case here).
But...
Have U seen any player at Frostbeule level say he will drop the game cause he had two bugs on the last competition he did ?
If it were the case I'm quite sure that Nadeo would consider the implication since they want to develop the competition aspect of the game. If they don't we can assume it is at least within reasonable standards....
And when I say that to some extent you can avoid the bugs, you can. I saw some players lower their track times just because they learned how to stabilize the car more efficiently for example, reducing bug occurence. When U say that it is because we dont drive competitively.... we just choose to lessen our risk compared to you. Any F1 driver can choose to brake sooner or later, In some cases it works just fine, on some other cases, you go to the wall. Pretty much the same here, you can try to shave walls and rammstein, which leads to higher risk, or not.
Of course, risk rewards, and therefore you should go faster if U risk more... but you also risk more!!!! Seems U guys forget about that. The 'bug' is part of that risk, no more no less. Once we accept that; there is no more bug, just the game and its limits, its rewards and risks. :pil

Btw: I know Dominhead, as he is Spanish, and a hell of a driver too. We drive the same tracks U do in ESL, so I could argue we are as competitive as U are..... Point is we drive the same game, so it is more a matter of our differences of perception than reality..... :1

Anyway, bugs considered, I'm still in love with this game! :lovetm
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by DeathDriver » 19 Nov 2008 15:18

Hey fellows :)

want to add smth:

please describe those bugs (especially the last one) to me with logic physics want to have a big lol.

I know this is Nations not Forever, but well that do not matters, as N and NF are using the same physics ;)

btw:
I agree with you that flat landing is not good at all, but I know some cases where you bugged out while landing not in a 0° angle.
Oh man I love such discussions.

We all should try to live with those bugs and we should try to take them as a part of the game. I know its not the same for all, as it is something like random. We should program a random generator with the intervals between two bugs. Maybe this one will be better than the one we use to determine the next 3 Tracks in our cups xD

And Kama I want to now who you are, may you introduce yourself to me (really not kidding). :)

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by n!sliVer » 19 Nov 2008 16:06

kama wrote: Have U seen any player at Frostbeule level say he will drop the game cause he had two bugs on the last competition he did ?
If it were the case I'm quite sure that Nadeo would consider the implication since they want to develop the competition aspect of the game. If they don't we can assume it is at least within reasonable standards....
Well, that is actually not the point. The motivation of these competitions is still the prize money, which is quiet big. So the possibility to win something motivates you a lot more than the demotivating bugs. To give you an example:

I bootcamped with dignitas/gaLLo and dignitas/Xenogear (also know as Pascal and Freek) 3 days at gaLLo's place for the ESWC Masters of Paris. Playing 8-10 hours per day 5 tracks. And at every break (really at every break) we were just complaining about these demotivating bugs... and I rembered one sentence I said while we had our lunch: "Guys, without you I would have already lost my motivation for training. Especially cause of those bugs at MoP-02 and MoP-05." gaLLo agreed while XeNo just said: "That is one mainreason why I will quit TMN:F ProPlay after the Grand Final. The whole nolife-**** and its bugs. I won once, that's enough!" (Xeno quitted, he is not racing anymore)

Furthermore: Yes, I heared many guys about quitting this game, even myself. I tried NFS:PS but it actually didn't worked out for me, cause my passion is Trackmania. But to remind you: The ProPlayer's Motivation are the BIG Cups, with prize money and stuff. If such cups are gone, trackmania won't be a big eSports title.
Team Competitions like NC/STC and PS are just raced by the big names, cause this tournaments keep them active for the ESWC. Without ESWC what are ProPlayer's nolifing for?
To give you an exmaple for excactly this behaviour: dignitas/gaLLo, racing for money, nothing else.

To put it in a nutshell: If Trackmania wants to be a big eSports title, in a competitive way, having big tournaments with prize money and superclose races with the best players of the world, those bugs have to be fixed to get more ProPlayers motivated to participate in such big competitions.


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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by DeathDriver » 19 Nov 2008 16:27

nothing more to add then +1

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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by Trackmaniack » 19 Nov 2008 20:52

You know what? If everybody's complaining about how bad TM is, they should go play Crashday. Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad game, because it's not.....but it tries to be another Trackmania and it can't.....trust me, it'll reinstate your love for this crazy game. It did me.
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by kama » 20 Nov 2008 00:14

DeathDriver wrote: We all should try to live with those bugs and we should try to take them as a part of the game.
Exactly my point.....

To answer your 'private' questions , you can PM me..... I doubt my life is of any interest to many people :roflol:
n!sliVer wrote: To put it in a nutshell: If Trackmania wants to be a big eSports title, in a competitive way, having big tournaments with prize money and superclose races with the best players of the world, those bugs have to be fixed to get more ProPlayers motivated to participate in such big competitions.
Another good point: do you know about Nadeo's strategy? Maybe they do not want to become the esport reference game.... and so maybe given their objective and resources, those bugs are within aceptable parameters for the game to be interesting enough for many to play.... Just saw a Renault Megane add online, maybe that's the goal. Or maybe not...... But I agree that some tracks can be anoying because of such flaws (I am also subject to those...).

I don't know Xeno apart from his performances, saw him in Paris; and I did meet some Nadeo oficials, over some extensive talks. The bugs were of course mentioned. I believe they already answered on that point as well, what else can I say? Love it or hate it, but suck it up! :roflol:
Seeya guys on the tracks. :1
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Re: BUGS IN FOREVER

Post by DeathDriver » 20 Nov 2008 15:33

kama wrote: Another good point: do you know about Nadeo's strategy? Maybe they do not want to become the esport reference game....

I know and they want :)

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