FREEZONE

General Discussion about Trackmania Nations ESWC.

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eyebo
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Re: FREEZONE

Post by eyebo » 11 Dec 2010 12:09

Florent wrote:... those moves are to keep Forever and that this game should survive the release of TM2. And from my point of view, I would like players to have both shortcuts on their desktop. There is value in both games from my point of view and the gameplays are all differents.
Very nice post Florent. It's nice to read your words on this development. I'm sure you're doing all you can to make things work for the best.

Considering the 1000s of high quality tracks I already enjoy in TMUF, I'm not going to just throw that all away when TM2 comes out. although I'll be uber-curious to check out the new game as well.

There's plenty of fun to be found in TMUF for years to come. I'm glad Nadeo Team sees it this way as well.
Florent wrote:If players does not buy TMU because of TM2 coming, I think they are making a mistake. Both are good games from my point of view
How true!

Well, I can't speak to TM2 being good, but considering it will have different environments and be a different game entirely... why would it "replace" TMUF. It's just another game to add to the repertoire. Sure TMUF is some years old now, but gameplay is still insanely fun, and when it comes down to it, thats what really matters in a game, not the graphics or lighting effects, etc.

TMUF is still a great investment when comparing hours of fun to amount of money spent.

Looking forward to seeing what's next. :thumbsup:

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by weerwolf1 » 11 Dec 2010 12:09

Thank you very much Florent!
Now i understand the reasons. I always keep in mind that a older version is going to be abandoned, but you want to keep them both alive and still have a free version. In this concept i really understand the decision now. I will going to support this and communicate it. Just to hope the servers will be well visited in a reasonable short time :P (gotta split my squad then :xD)

Cheers, Weerwolf

edit: ps. (also think to encourage this to lower the price a bit, like suggested somewhere in the past 30 pages ^^)
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eyebo
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Re: FREEZONE

Post by eyebo » 11 Dec 2010 12:33

Marty wrote:Last post on this as im going to spend most of the day playing TM
Just to make you aware, I fully support TM brought it twice pay to run a server and no doubt will buy TM2, but by reading your reply you dont do your self any favours in trying to build a community spirit.
I apologize. I think I came off a little "ranty" and that wasn't my intention. After you read 25+ pages of other rants it's hard not to let it wear off on you. Most of what I said wasn't aimed at you, but at the general audience that has posted in this thread.

I'm sure a lot of TMNF players want to fully support the game, as you have by renting servers to improve other people's experience.

Regards,
eyebo

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Stevil79 » 11 Dec 2010 12:42

Hi Florent and thanks for taking the time to answer a lot of questions.

I just want to make some points which I don't think have been voiced or answered yet. I have been playing TM for a number of years and I bought an account based on the fact that your company gave me something for free and I wanted to to give something back. I have since introduced friends and my wife and child to the game.

I would like to know what will happen when these free servers go live and who will be moderating them. I ask about moderation because in my experience there is a minority who play the game who use bad language, sexual imagery and use arrogance and abuse in the public servers at present and in the past. Now in my experience this is a family game and historically the servers hosted by the community have policed stupid and childish behaviour well over the years. If you plan to put all of your new players in to a box and shove them all together in this new free zone do you not think that the "Idiot" element will scare more people off than to buy the game?

As a responsible parent I would not be happy letting my child play on your Nadeo servers with any Tom Dick and Harry so you have to ask yourself are you already turning customers away?

I think you are trying to create a captive audience in order to increase revenues which I can understand. However, you must consider your responsibilities to the rest of your community. The community are the people who continue to make this game great are responsible for the game's continued success. I totally appreciate that you have to pay your staff and they have families etc. But when the smaller, family and community driven servers start to disappear and you only have the freeloaders clogging up your servers because they don't know how to play any any of the others I think that your advertising potential will decrease.

I honestly don't think people will buy the game on the strength of Nadeo servers alone. Not only that but with no new players to play with... the established communities will start to dwindle and ultimately fade away. Is this what you want when you're releasing new games?

Why not keep access to the servers as they stand and make the free game a free trial for 1-3 months with an option to purchase the full game (TMUF) for a nominal fee of $7.99 at the end or something? At least with this model people can experience the game as it should be played on some of the best Stadium servers and have the chance to build up an enthusiasm for the game?
Click --> here <-- to join the LOVESHACK server

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Florent » 11 Dec 2010 12:56

But there something interesting in your approach, but keep in mind that they would be able to create another account and that we also want to start working on the welcome of new players. One the main feedback we have is often that the player servers are with a lot of expert stuff (tracks, plug ins) etc. It makes them funnier, but maybe a little less welcoming for newbie. We will try to work on that and maybe ask players who want to participate to this, to be in. To have a way to better welcome the new players is a project since a long time, and suggested server was designed to be the starting point. We intented to provide 'newbie welcoming server' pass to selected host (a little like ladder server) but never did it. We have to deal with the lack of time on many topics, like a lot of people should do ^_^

for the freezone current servers, most graphic have been unactivated and you can still use the parental lock function that is available in the launcher of the game (that I recommend even on player servers if you are worried about this subject)

it is a starting situation and will see how it evolves with time.

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by lille79 » 11 Dec 2010 13:41

IMHO a server without admins visiting the server quite often isn't a very good server. I know you (Nadeo) have a lot going on, but welcoming people to poorly controlled servers is another sad result of your decision on thursday :roll:
/lille79
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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Big_Al » 11 Dec 2010 14:06

Florent wrote:Big_Al

if you look in the first post, there is a link that explains it
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... y-year-end
we have been informed, a month ago, that they will stop their activity

we are working with another agency, but things are not so simple

in game advertising has suffered a lot and you can read this here
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/q ... g-business
but we were not exactly in that case since we have generated more than 10 times their audience. (quote from them: "players have spent over 8.9 million hours", while it was 100 millions hours for us at that time)

the fun fact, is that we probably inspired them to do this (same agency IGA and this recent interview can witness it)
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... iew?page=2

we have been innovative, we have reached our audience target to make the game sustainable "Forever" but somehow, the world is changing a little... a least the in game advertising one ^_^
Thx vm for that detailed indication Florent.
I wonder about 2 things. Was Nations Forever from the beginning planned to earn money with advertisement or was the idea born later?
As I remember in the beginning there was no advertising in-game.

And since the advertising started, was it profitable?
Is the loss of income so huge? What I read about in-game advertisement doesn´t look like a gold-claim.

I really wonder why there is so much money now needed for a 3 years old game? Okay Nadeo needs money for employees and hire. And even the masterservers, but are they really so expensive?

If the money is just needed for further project like TM2, sorry but i have to say that train has departed to sqeeze more out of TM in that way to force players buy the United edition.
Many are just interested in stadium. So i think it would be more senseful to do a small stadium buy-version for lower price.

How can You expect that this old game will get now again big business? Without patches, without new design and development? That can´t be serious.

Even if Nadeo is in trouble, it will give You a backdraft if you keep changes like they are done now. Nadeo won´t make much extra money I guess, and Nadeo will loose community I promise. Additionally many voices I heared, that players who said they want to buy TM2 are now not interested anymore.

The trackmania community is one of the nicest communities of all online games I ever played, and they all are faithful to Nadeo. Would be very sad if that would be hurt.

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Florent » 11 Dec 2010 14:17

Big_Al
We have spend 7 figures numbers to make Nations. The future of it's model and the fact that we can get some revenues is strategic, even if only running the server would not cost so much.
Advertising was at the core of the "Forever" concept, in a way, that our target was to multiply the revenues of the previous version, ESWC, by multiplying the audience. We succeeded, but other things created other obstacles.
Maybe it will bring us more knowledge, to know how to make the future of our games. If there is a free entering model, maybe we can think better of a Nations 2, or not (it is purely for the example) There are way too much parameter that are proper to the studio to really get all that lead to this, but at the end, we are providing space for the community to organize itself. Microsoft adapt, we adapt, the community adapt and the players adapt (buy or use favorites, for example)

lille: sure. It is part of the negative effect of the solution and like I said earlier, the idea to integrate players wanting to participage to improve the solution is also behind this. It will take time to improve this and we were aware of it, off course.

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by SeanLad » 11 Dec 2010 14:48

YEP **** THIS. NO1 IS GONNA BUY TRACKMANIA 2 NOW. I WON'T!

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Gekko » 11 Dec 2010 14:52

Terron wrote:do you remember text FREE AND FOR ALL from trailer? now it isnt free cause you are limited to free zone servers.
I think that nadeo should make possibility to buy coppers for real money (paypal, SMS,...) like EA did with NFSW (players can purchase BOOST credits and spend them in game)
I agree, i suggested this many times.
Knutselmaaster wrote:Another idea, why not taking the advertisements in your own hands, Nadeo?
I agree, i suggested this many times.

With all the rispect Florent, TMU and TM2 could be valid games, but nobody is so stupid to buy TMU before TM2 come out (as you said there is a money crysis in the world)
IMHO TMF need to be closed or TM2 will fail and you will close all the TM.

In this way the players adapt mean going to another game.
I think Nadeo waited too much, the 90% of admins and coders used to post only good opinions to Nadeo, against me that i always told bugs and problems CLEAR and face to face.
Why you didn't found a solution before?
When i asked : Dear Flo, we are 7000 Online something don't go, i think TMF is going down... you told me TMU still selling much... and i thinked in myself that is not true, cause all my statistic are against what he told.

I know is hard Flo, sure i'm not against Nadeo or you, but sure some ideas could be good in 2001/2002 not in 2011.
I also know that the advertise marketing become hard in last years, and i know how it work, but you can't get down also Communities that carried to TM many TMU buyers
i talk about mine like i talk about COS, or talk about Jamlan etc, i talk about all the servers always worked with noobs, getting them involved step by step in the game,
you need to think before what can happen if they go down.
Have you ever thought that someone could be doing a similar game all for free with advertisement that work for real?????

Well, i think this, you think that, they think bla bla.... the point is in this way Nadeo will close TMF, even you add new features.
The end of the game started much time ago but in the while Microsoft paid, now holidays was ended, but too time passed.
I wish ShootMania save the Company, the other games i think will have less players.

Sorry, if i'm rude and bad, but i telling this things since 2 years and nobody trusted in me, and always received a flame by stupid moderators or stupid admins, now is the moment i get a revenge.

P.S.: If you need to advertise, and need the help of players, start to do a JPG, PNG pack and give for download with links to buy the game, start to do own SHOP ONLINE to sell the game directly, damn why you need to give this works to amazon and the damned STEAM and the others??????? :grmblz:

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by TaSo » 11 Dec 2010 14:58

It is sad to read this news, but it's even more sad for Nadeo, I think. I understand this decision, but I hope that the situation will turned back to normal when there is a solution for these problems.
Is there (besides buying TMUF) anything that we can do as community to Nadeo?

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Doronskiy » 11 Dec 2010 15:00

Florent. You do not want to change the rule of adding a server to your favorites. You are changing the description of the server for a description of NADEO. You are now added to his signature phrase:
For direct hosting open to all, write <hide_server>1</hide_server> in the command line and use
tmtp://#join=serverlogin
For me, it becomes apparent that NADEO wants to get rid of private servers and tries to translate all the players TMNF servers FREEZONE. Tell us straight: NADEO not need foreign servers, plug-ins and other developments. Then we will know when to shut our projects.
Last edited by Doronskiy on 11 Dec 2010 15:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FREEZONE

Post by lille79 » 11 Dec 2010 15:00

Gekko: Please write Florent if you mean Florent. I get confused by this Flo-talk. Flo is a totally other person in Trackmania... :wink:
/lille79
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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Florent » 11 Dec 2010 15:01

there is a direct link to buy the game gekko, you are misinformed. connect with a free account and you will see this.

as buying TMU right now, you are right, there is the financial crisis and player will have to make choices. But I also have the national statistic of gifts and I believe that there is not such a drastic change that what we are suffering from advertising loss. Moreover, TMU still offers a longer lifetime of play than most of the games on the market that sells millions. The goal here is also to make Forever stay longer, which makes the buy even more logical.

we will probably make a solution based on coppers (not buying but giving them to players making conversion, while asking coppers to be in freezone) You can already nearly do it by making a manialink page for your server and taking maniapub space to advertise it.

you don't seem to really look at building but focusing on critics. It looks like your testimony that many moderators had trouble with you in the past. Maybe it reflects your way to communicate more than the trouble itself.

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Re: FREEZONE

Post by Gekko » 11 Dec 2010 15:22

Yes can it be, and what about the possibility that UBISOFT want private servers must disappear??
Can you give us some news?
Can be this a test from Nadeo/Ubisoft to undertsand the response of admins and players on a FIXED lobby??? (Ubisoft always deprecated free dedicated as i know)
I'm thinking much things, you need to give some answer tu admins like me, maybe the others are going out of the hidden meaning of your first post.

Edit.: Why didn't you used GOOGLE to advertise the shop to buy TMU? i never saw the link.
Last edited by Gekko on 11 Dec 2010 15:24, edited 1 time in total.

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