Short term issues for competitions

General Discussion about Trackmania Nations ESWC.

Moderator: TM-Patrol

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 20:01

Here is a topic where competition organizers, and I would like only them, to post what they need to improve the handling of their competitions.

It means that they have already thought on existing solutions (like the favorite server tmtp link) and that there are still short term issues

Try to be constructive and we will try to be

thanks

Dff|Shadow
cyclist
cyclist
Posts: 35
Joined: 27 Jun 2007 10:19
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Dff|Shadow » 09 Dec 2010 21:07

I don't know if it's possible, but my solution is to create a "rental office" for tournaments' organizers. Just to make a simple site, where people can run their 'own' freezone server with some settings control (maps, passwords, gamemodes - that's all i think). In this situation organizers would tell his tour players the login and the pwd earlier, so everyone can join there, typing "tmtp://#addfavourite=serverlogin" in their browsers.

Dedimania/fast isn't obligatory in tournaments. However I have no idea how to permit people watching these tournaments.

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 21:13

doing this "tmtp://#addfavourite=serverlogin" will already enable any account free or paying to enter any nations server

so, I am not sure to understand the post

Creeping Cold
highway camper
highway camper
Posts: 2
Joined: 01 Aug 2008 18:06
Owned TM-games: TMNF

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Creeping Cold » 09 Dec 2010 21:45

hey, i'm crex, one of the heads in the eu section of the esl.

one big problem which i see for us are the 1v1 ladders. at the moment it looks like we have to close the most. an active 1v1 player can't live with only 3 favourites. Which means he has to buy the game or leave the ladder. i guess i know what will happen. We don't have any solution ready for it now.

another big problem is that the favourite server list which is ingame is not always or never actualized in real time. this makes it impossible to have many matches in a row - so structured nightcups are impossible now.

a good solution would it be, if we could get freezone servers for which you need a pass, so that we could run those 1 day cups without bigger problems on those servers, and only participants could join them. that would be the fastest and easiest way.

i don't know if it's possible that our 24/7 pub server which will be set up in the next few days could get freezone permissions too? because it's now impossible to catch new players and let them join the community without spamming your freezone servers.

We have a few polls running, atm i don't see any danger for our team tournaments. The teams are in the most cases well organized and have the technical know how to deal with it.

It's only a first intention now, we're not sure how many of our users have united, maybe it will change some things.

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 21:52

Creeping Cold:
-how many favorites it needs for your ladder to perform?
-do you have a list of ESL player TM login so we can make special access, at least for short term?
-thank you for your information about the favorite list refresh rate, I was unaware of the current issue. I will dig into this.
-Maybe we can make all private server accessible in freezone, I need to think about it

the 24/7 will not have access to freezone yet and probably not the next few days, unless we set up a solution for everybody (maybe a coppers one would be the fastest one)

thank you very much for your post.

Creeping Cold
highway camper
highway camper
Posts: 2
Joined: 01 Aug 2008 18:06
Owned TM-games: TMNF

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Creeping Cold » 09 Dec 2010 22:26

thanks for the fast answer.

-i'd say at least 5 slots because of the refresh delay. a player often has his clan/train server in his fav. list which already are 2 slots. and he'd preferably leave a ladder than deleting them before each match.

-we have all logins, but i don't know how fast you are?
if a cup starts at 20:00, our players check in until 19:55 normally, so that we could send this list after the check in. i don't know how much time you need to handle it?

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 22:30

for the favorite maximum, we won't touch it for now, at least until next week

I can easily foresee that we move the limit to 5. We will see later if we should reduce because it is too much, but I I kind of agree that 3 is too limited at the moment.

for the list, we could provide organisation with hyperlink to feed the white list, if we go toward a solution like this

Zooz
TM-Patrol
TM-Patrol
Posts: 5326
Joined: 13 Aug 2005 08:58
Owned TM-games: TMO, TMS, TMNF, TMUF
Manialink(s): zooz
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Zooz » 09 Dec 2010 22:32

As for ET, our players have verified their logins with their community code. So a temporary solution would be to send the logins of players in active tournaments for some sort of whitelist. I'll see if the site admin can get that from the database easily.

But after that, I guess there will be similar problems as for ESL. Normally in our competitions, teams host their own servers, so they will need to "favourite" it in advance each week. This will make organization of matches a lot more difficult. And there are obvious issues with spectating and relay servers as well.

We don't have any central way of introducing players to our tracks either, this happens on public and private competition training servers hosted by teams, that won't be easily accessible to free players any more unless they happen to know a team.

One solution might be a whitelist for team training / match servers, but it would be a lot of work. Some servers of current competition tracks in the freezone might be a better solution at least for the training server problem, but someone would have to keep it updated and such. Usually both Rounds and Time Attack servers are used, so that would make at least two. At the moment all freezone servers are time attack though, so maybe it's against your ideas? That would make it even more difficult to introduce new players to competitions though, since they are normally played in Rounds or Cup mode.

As for match and relay servers, I think it's better if relay servers are always in the freezone. More exposure is always good. I can't think of any good solution for privately hosted match servers right now. It would be an organizational nightmare for ET to host every match (although we haven't discussed this option).

I hope there will be some good ideas in the coming days!

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 22:40

what is important is if there is something that is necessary for the week end (if you want to send a list of login, we can add it, if you need an adress to add players, we can do it. Whitelisted players will see the servers like any paying player)

then, we will see over the time of next week how to adapt the upcoming month

then, we will see over the time of next month how to adapt to the community

DeathDriver
tricycle manager
tricycle manager
Posts: 25
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 08:04
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMNF, TMUF

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by DeathDriver » 09 Dec 2010 22:47

Florent wrote:....
-Maybe we can make all private server accessible in freezone, I need to think about it
...
Maybe you overread this, but this is the best solution in my eyes. People can easily create servers, set a password and others can find it - even if none of both have the full game. Maybe a good Mid Term (1month) solution?

dimCracker
pedestrian
pedestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 16:50
Owned TM-games: TMU

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by dimCracker » 09 Dec 2010 22:52

Adding all players to a whitelist can't be the solution. Maybe if some player needs to play on another gameaccount or if you want to exchange participants you already got a problem.

-What would be more helpful is adding the servers we play the tournament on to a whitelist / Freezone. Then we could guarantee, that every player is able to participate without any trouble.
-I agree to crex with the favourite slots. Most Team-Members add their Train and their Public server(s) as Favourite. You can easily run out of those three slots. Raising them up to 5 would be an improvement, it allows also 2-3 non-clan servers.

Concerning team matches, I don't see that a big problem. The drivers have a longer time to prepare for their matches and adding the server to their favourites. Therefore it is the responsibility of every team leader to inform his team about the servers they want to play the match on.
Maybe you've heard of the new tourney-system of the esl called "quick-tourney". With the restriction it unluckily seems to be impossible to host such quick tourneys in TMNF (they run without admin and can be created by every user)( http://www.esl.eu/eu/development/news/141571/ ).

Whatever I see the biggest problem in short-term 1on1 Matches. Mostly the players haven't got the information about the serverlogin of their server. There's afaik no way to get it without access to the server. Just an Idea to solve this problem: A kind of "online server browser" where you can browse all Servers that ar running in TMNF/TMUF to find out their serverlogins and possibly add them to the favourites. That would be also a good reason for server-hoster to keep up their server, even if they can't advertise it on some homepage.

Greets
Cracker (former ESL TMNF Head :-) )

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 22:59

it is a little complicated

I would make them invisible to start with, but joinable by any free account with a tmtp link

it would be a mid term solution if the "server list" would not transform itself to a webpage with password/server link list ^_^

for me, it could be a good way to reach the community without giving full access

dimCracker: I will definitely look for 5 tomorrow then

I also understand that the whitelist is not the perfect solution and will rather look at "enabled server"

User avatar
w1lla
TM-Patrol
TM-Patrol
Posts: 1466
Joined: 23 May 2007 07:20
Owned TM-games: TMU, TMN, TMF
Manialink(s): intr
Location: Venray

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by w1lla » 09 Dec 2010 23:01

Nice idea but the problem lies also in nation accounts

You can cheat with them and host servers with them

Thats where nadeo can miss income

Code: Select all

tmnforever is nations and united makes it special. tmnforever has united. I need united!

Florent
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1594
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 14:07
Contact:

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by Florent » 09 Dec 2010 23:15

I don't want all the income at all

I am looking for the regular player who can easily afford the game he is playing on regularly, but prefer to buy many other games instead of our.

If there is a way to keep all the active and constructive players from the community at the same time, I would be more than happy.

The community number of players is really small beside the number of TrackMania players. If you think of 8 million of registred players, compare it with the number of players in teams!

this is why I am pretty confident that we will find a solution, at least if negativness does not invites itself on board too often. It is logical to have some tonigh, also considering that nearly 100K players discovered the news today, but I can just rely on players really wanting for Nations to have a solid future to see that we need ot improve the model.

DeathDriver
tricycle manager
tricycle manager
Posts: 25
Joined: 10 Feb 2008 08:04
Owned TM-games: TMN, TMU, TMNF, TMUF

Re: Short term issues for competitions

Post by DeathDriver » 09 Dec 2010 23:21

What about "private servers are accessable for X hours"?
Maybe 2 Hours for 1v1 games and 4 hours for team games. And you can buy longer access... just a few ideas coming to my mind.

Post Reply