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Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 28 Jan 2011 17:26
by KLF
My 2 cents...
This don't make it any better for servers owners, it's just a slap on their faces. If you guys from Nadeo want to continue with this nonsense, it's better to close the game to nations players at all.
Hosting a server it's not fun anymore.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 28 Jan 2011 17:28
by Gekko
I'm using my script and all is fine.
Just run 2 script together.
Run maniaLive with only FreeZone Server plugin.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 28 Jan 2011 20:04
by nocturne
oliverde8 wrote:...or somemone will explain me how to install 2 PHP on my Linux server :)
It'd be easy if you were on windows (simple as extracting to different dirs), or on Gentoo were you can install minor php versions into slots. Otherwise...

As there aren't many precompiled php 5.3 packages out there for linux (let alone in package repos), it get's a little more complicated... You have to download the source, extract, configure, then compile, leaving out the apache module (follow the instructions on the PHP website for cgi/command-line install) -- renaming your logs, extensions, and config files. Then, you just need to call your specified php install in your bash script when running a script which needs v5.3

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 28 Jan 2011 21:18
by oliverde8
nocturne wrote:
oliverde8 wrote:...or somemone will explain me how to install 2 PHP on my Linux server :)
It'd be easy if you were on windows (simple as extracting to different dirs), or on Gentoo were you can install minor php versions into slots. Otherwise...

As there aren't many precompiled php 5.3 packages out there for linux (let alone in package repos), it get's a little more complicated... You have to download the source, extract, configure, then compile, leaving out the apache module (follow the instructions on the PHP website for cgi/command-line install) -- renaming your logs, extensions, and config files. Then, you just need to call your specified php install in your bash script when running a script which needs v5.3
Thanks,
Yes my server is on linux :) I know what I need to do in theory but couldn't do it. I downloaded the source extracted it, configured it but couln't compile it.
In fact I probably can but I have some time issues. The compilation takes 20minutes and every time there is a missing package it fails I install the package and restart the 20 minutes cycle :mrgreen: . After 3 trys I stopped trying :roll: . I maight try again this weekend

Meanwhile I tried something else, :mrgreen: I made Aseco work on php 5.3 (I had to change nearly every plugin to take out the &$param to replace them with $param modify also some stuff in Aseco.php) I need know to install PHP5.3 on my server.

Edit: Thanks a lot it works I have PHP5.3

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 00:44
by nocturne
To install php5.3-cli, I just created a scratch dir, downloaded php with 'wget http://us.php.net/distributions/php-5.3.5.tar.gz', extracted with 'tar -xvfz php-5.3.5.tar.gz', 'cd php-5.3.5', configured with './configure --prefix=/php53-cli/etc --exec-prefix=/php53-cli --program-suffix=53 --disable-cgi --with-openssl --with-curl --with-mysql=/usr/bin/ --with-libdir=lib64 --with-mysqli --with-zlib' (directories may differ by install), compiled with 'make', and then installed with 'make install-cli'; then tested with '/php53-cli/bin/php53 -v'.

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# /php53-cli/bin/php53 -v
PHP 5.3.5 (cli) (built: Jan 29 2011 03:15:00)
Copyright (c) 1997-2010 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v2.3.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2010 Zend Technologies

# php -v
PHP 5.2.16 (cli) (built: Dec 17 2010 14:11:16)
Copyright (c) 1997-2010 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v2.2.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2010 Zend Technologies
    with the ionCube PHP Loader v3.3.18, Copyright (c) 2002-2010, by ionCube Ltd., and
    with eAccelerator v0.9.6.1, Copyright (c) 2004-2010 eAccelerator, by eAccelerator
Edit: There's no config file loaded with this setup, so you'd either need to dump one into /php53-cli/lib, or specify one when running.

On a sidenote, is updating Aseco the rest of the way to php5.3 down to just fixing &$param's? There were a few changes in the aseco cvs for 5.3, but seems it's down now. Suppose the easiest way of knowing is trying it, and fix the bugs that pop up until it runs.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 09:23
by oliverde8
nocturne wrote: On a sidenote, is updating Aseco the rest of the way to php5.3 down to just fixing &$param's? There were a few changes in the aseco cvs for 5.3, but seems it's down now. Suppose the easiest way of knowing is trying it, and fix the bugs that pop up until it runs.
What I did was fixing all &$params. To do so I did this to each file of Aseco
replace all && by :&&:
replace & $ by $
replace &$ by $
replace :&&: by &&

THe second probleme was the Invalid CRT with the stream_select methods in web_acces and gbx_remote.inc . I couldn't get rid of the error :? so I chaned the Error handling method of Aseco

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case E_WARNING :
			if(strpos($errstr, 'Invalid CRT')=== false){
				$message = "[PHP Warning] $errstr on line $errline in file $errfile\r\n";
				doLog($message);
				echo $message;
				break;
			}
		case E_USER_WARNING :
			if(strpos($errstr, 'Invalid CRT')=== false){
				$message = "[ASECO Warning] $errstr\r\n";
				doLog($message);
				echo $message;
				break;
			} 
it seems to work without probleme now

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 12:31
by svens
For dynamically loadable extensions, you have the extension_dir config option in your php.ini.

I guess I've already told my opinion about the FreeZone. To be honest I didn't expect anything else but this. However I really can't understand why server admins run servers which are that crippled. It's like selling your soul to the devil. And I thought that server admins are sane enough not to do so, after all what you do is supporting the FreeZone concept, by providing the only good/playable servers (plus paying additional three times for it: united license + coppers + free advertising, of course not mentioning everything else it takes to host a server).

For the record, the FreeZone plugin doesn't do any magic. There is no technical reason behind not allowing other server controllers than ManiaLive, it's just political. If you're a programmer and know your server controller well, you'll have it ported in under 3 hours (just make sure you're sending the "correct" checksum when testing :D).
From a quick look at the plugin, it looks like it always uses the password "azerty" for authentication. Also I especially like that if you're not running a local MySQL server with a root account with no password, the checksum sent to Nadeo will differ from everyone else. Or does ManiaLive have "external" sources (config files) for the static fields? But if there are, why such strange default values? (And you should probably change freezone300s password.)

So this is the wonderful solution for server hosts. What about relays? Will I have to force the Nations people to drive every 5th round or what? Does ManiaLive even run on relays? Also I don't think that paying the same as a 24/7 running server is fair.
From what I've heard the FreeZone plugin makes United adverts. Will the admin get something back from that?

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 13:20
by Jojo_44
Hi,
because some guys ask me how to install php5.3 on a linux debian system, i give you a short step by step instruction:
(all steps as root)

1. open the /ect/apt/sources.list file
2. add at the end the line:

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deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main
3. apt-get update
4. apt-get install php5
5. apt-get install php5-curl
6. apt-get install php-services-json
7. remove the line from step two important!
8. apt-get update


Another question, it is possible to change the color of "FreeZone" ?

best regards, Jojo

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 13:22
by »Enryx«
Another question, it is possible to change the color of "FreeZone" ?
for example FREEZONE TPS 1.7 is all written in blue, so I think u can...

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 14:34
by nocturne
This is infuriating... Server was running 18 hours in the freezone with no bs restrictions (couldn't get ML working), and everything was fine... Now the damn thing is packed to the gills with the 'lowest common denominator' of players. This freezone garbage is seeming more and more like a prison, and I'd almost rather keep it that way. In summation, why should we be forced to cater to the lowest class of players without any dilution? A true community consists of all levels of players intermingling together.. I figured the 'stepped' ladder with the release of TMF would be the final blow to the tm community, but I could have never imagined the hell that freezone has wrought.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 14:46
by Gekko
»Enryx« wrote:
Another question, it is possible to change the color of "FreeZone" ?
for example FREEZONE TPS 1.7 is all written in blue, so I think u can...
Hmm, i think is my fault, but i didn't read that we can't change the color.
I think the important is you run ManiaLive with the freezone plugin.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 15:30
by nocturne
There needs to be quite a step back taken with the plugin... I was muted on my own server for warning a player: "Don't be an ass". The warning message stated that the mute would last only 5 minutes, but it's stood much longer -- making me doubt that the 'time out' works at all (20min gone by and -- still no chat).

If that's offensive, let alone the thousand's of words that contain 'ass' such as 'assassin'.. Well, then I need to find a new game.

The hoops Nadeo is forcing us to jump through to maintain our communities is really getting ridiculous. I understand the point is to make a freezone player as miserable as possible until they finally relent and purchase the game (which here in the US can be only purchased legally through steam, due to the utter failure of Focus Interactive, Nadeo's designated publisher), but there have been so far no concessions to the server operators who really keep this game alive. I'd suggest a movement to 'hide' all our servers from the public list, letting the freezone crumble under it's own weight, but I realize there'd be way too many desperate server operators out there willing to forsake their morals for a tiny bit of the player-share.

Nadeo ppl... please note these concerns... First, you took away our right to choose our own tracklist and server format with your ladder rules -- and now you take away our noobs -- the fresh blood that every community thrives on. The original concept was to unite all players, but with each move you only seem to force them further apart -- creating distinct 'classes' of players who are deemed never to interact with eachother.

I understand you are trying to 'sell' a game, but the best kind of game is one ppl are free to enjoy -- and you just seem set on taking all the fun out of it... for everybody..

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 29 Jan 2011 23:40
by lille79
The strange thing is I can't see ONE reason for running a Freezone server. I can't see a good way of getting people interested in the game either any longer. TMNF is destroyed as we knew it, and it would have been interesting to know how the changes made last 2 months have helped Nadeo. Has it helped at all? Has sales gone up? Has server-cost/traffic gone down?

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 30 Jan 2011 10:17
by Florent
the audience is as high as before and sells are increasing, but that's not the most important part to understand the freezone operation.

The goal is to make a model for Nations to continu as long as possible, and it takes time.

I will try to cover some questions here, but you should all keep in mind that time is the biggest answer. Manialive will improve with time, rules can evolve with time and so Nations can stay in the best situation in time. First Nations was release 5 years ago, and we have supported it, 7/7, 24h/24 since then. For less than two months, rules has changed. Patience should be the first reaction when such a change has to be done because of the primary source of revenu of the game is leaving.

It is easy to make critics, it is less easy to find the money to run a team and to run it. This is maybe why there is not much competition for TM. We would love that. At least we can compare what we do with others and stop fighting against simplified vision of some players that would like us to answer all demands, and to do it for free.

Here are little answers to some things I have read in the topic

- The relay server for competition should be setup on a direct link access, obvisouly like competitions already do.
- We will see if the automated langage abuse tool could be either improved or an option for hosts.
- Using manialive is really made for us to adapt quickly to new rules and to moderate servers more easily. Manialive is young, but it is designed to be able to build bigger things on it in the future, also thanks to it's ManiaLib friends. The most difficult part of for freezone was to enable host that wants to host to come back, and it would be a too difficult thing to handle today AND in the future to welcome all server manager in the freezone.
- If we reach a stable situation (good for players, good for hosts, good for Nations ability to continu) maybe we can see how to moderate more server managers, but while we can change this, we will not consider too lightly the idea to bring all of them.

We will probably disable the hyperlink tmtp link in the servers name. Players that go around the rules are just making things harder to make them good. My goal is not to blame them, but to illustrate the need to keep things simple. The simpliest would be to stop Nations during the week, for example, and let it open the week-ends. But before reaching to this level, we would more expect players to encourage us in the way we are doing it at the moment.

Re: Freezone Servers

Posted: 30 Jan 2011 10:45
by Gekko
Hi Flo,

looking in the ManiaLive code, i can understand what you say...
it's all fine, you have your reason for the FreeZone situation, and i wish TM2 could be a big success for all (managers, coders, admins, players)...
I want only to suggest some things, but please, take them in condsideration....

A) In FreeZone we have (looking at the ML plugin) TMF players and TMU players. Why you don't make 40 Players only for TMF and TMU enter in any moment?
I think this not change too much your rules, cause the 40 players TMF always rotate for the spectating. But give to TMU players the possibility to help the noobs.

B) You can release the URL for the page to show (XML for the button and for the ADV) to advertise the upgrade to united, and all coders can add it in their script.

C) You can release the MLClient FreeZone Class (i called it in this way) and using the username and password bought on freezone:servers, and check via master server if they are respecting the rules.
I think now, the rules can be breaked easy, if someone understand something of PHP. I don't think you have a human behind a PC 24h/24 that join each server to check if all is ok.

D) As i understand from some words you said in the past, i think we can add the options to buy some slots in FreeZone with coppers (until a max, for example 100).

I know ML LIB is very good coded, but is really too different from all the others scripts, and php 5.3 is not stable yet.
Change the old script i done, and the other admins done, is a very long work.
I say the truth, i will enjoy to use ManiaLive with ManiaLibs to do new code and port the old ones, but this need time, we are not ready to do it so fast.

That's all, i hope you understand why i ask this.
In 2 months i played TM only 4 times, i waited the FreeZone become open (cause i understood it would be done). Like i suggested in the past, we need rules expecially for Servers Admin, not for players. For example, i should open a server also if we needed to use real money instead coppers or if we needed to buy coppers with real money.
Using money or virtual money, can clean the entire TM serverlist and the players will be always the same. You can use a CODE KEY like the PLAYER KEY to be sure and check servers.

Regards, sorry for my bad english,
Gekko