skill points exploit?

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debr5836
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skill points exploit?

Post by debr5836 » 18 Nov 2006 21:50

So I go into "Solo" mode and look at the skillpoints ladder, and the people at the top are like at 100k-500k skill points while I'm at a paltry 755sp. Note that I've only played my way through 10-15% of the solo game, but there is still a 1.5-2 orders of magnitude of discrepency here. When I click on the top guy's name, it appears that he has:

128.7k sp for StadiumB1
110.0k sp for StadiumB3
...

Note that for those races I only have between 40sp and 120sp ea.

Is there an exploit here? Can we get this fixed?

--debr5836 (a.k.a. Mr. Zero)

Skubidou
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Post by Skubidou » 18 Nov 2006 22:12

No exploit.

The Skill Point depend on the number of players that made an official time. StadiumB1 being the first map on which you can make a official time, i suppose lots of people have try the feature.

Formula being something like (Number of player after you/Number of player - 1)*100, being first of 1300 official times on StadiumB1, give him something like the 127.000 SP

Skubidou:~

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Post by Zooz » 18 Nov 2006 22:19

Hi, this is "top guy" here, it's no exploit, I just picked the most popular tracks to drive as that's how it works ^^
Skubi explained it nicely there.

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Markus
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Post by Markus » 18 Nov 2006 22:27

and by the way race one time against zooz and after that you know why he`s on the top of sp :wink:

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Post by Skubidou » 18 Nov 2006 22:30

Zooz wrote:I just picked the most popular tracks
In fact, this is the only "exploit" he used :mrgreen: :wink:

Skubidou:~

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Post by debr5836 » 18 Nov 2006 23:09

Sorry zooz, didn't mean to accuse you of any wrongdoing. I'm sure you are a very fast racer, and I will tremble in my boots if I see you on multiplayer :)


<edited by debr>
I've corrected my misunderstanding of the formula -- see my follow up post below

</edited by debr>
Last edited by debr5836 on 19 Nov 2006 06:31, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Zooz » 18 Nov 2006 23:11

debr5836 wrote:Sorry zooz, didn't mean to accuse you of any wrongdoing. I'm sure you are a very fast racer, and I will tremble in my boots if I see you on multiplayer :)

However, still think something is screwed up, and I don't think the formula Skubidou described is the whole story. For example, on StadiumB1 I have the 19th best time in the US (no clue where I am in the world), but I'm only getting 116sp for StadiumB1.
There it only counts the players in the US you are beating, since you are in the US rankings. It really goes up exponentially, maybe you get 1000 at most at the top of the USA ranking, 10000 at the bottom (10th) of the World ranking, and much more at the top of it.
If you're in a subzone it only seems to count who you beat in that subzone.

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Post by Willum » 18 Nov 2006 23:29

Does ladder ranking of not come into it as well?

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Post by Zooz » 18 Nov 2006 23:33

Ladder ranking is online, I'm pretty sure that's completely separate from skill point, which is for solo.

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Post by Skubidou » 18 Nov 2006 23:58

Skill Points are calculate with all players of the world, Country/Zone Ranking is calculate by country/zone (minus those who are in the higher ranking: If Zooz is first of world he doesn't appear anymore in Netherlands, so even the first of Netherlands in ranking is not really the first of netherlands :P ).

So:
- In the worst case, if all the 100 best players of the world would be from US, if you become first of US (on the ranking page), you are in reallity only the 101th of US :wink:
- If you are first of US on StadiumB1, you are perhaps only 1000th of world (imagine you made 25sec on StadiumB1 and are first of US with this time. If 100 french players have made a better time than you, would it be correct that you have 1000 SP for 25sec because you are first of US and the 100th of french player only get 44 SP for 24.9sec?)

On Stadium, i'm 3rd of Belgium, but only 306th of world :lol:

Good example that Skill Points are calculate with all players of the world:
StadiumD1 : second in Belgium on 6 players (in belgium ranking) => 98 SP
StadiumD3 : second in Belgium on 6 players => 149 SP

Difference? Simply because i'm perhaps 500th in the world on StadiumD1, and 400th on StadiumD3. Or there are more players behind me (in the world as in Belgium, there are still 4 players) on StadiumD3 than on StadiumD1

Skubidou:~

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Post by Scheurhenk » 19 Nov 2006 01:02

There's still something I don't understand. If I watch the top10 list for Stadium B1 I cannot see Zooz in the top 10, but the #1 driver (Bla.de) only has 33k points and a time of 24.41. How can you get 100k+ points?

Apart from that, I really like the new ladders.

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Post by Skubidou » 19 Nov 2006 01:40

But which ranking do you see? Above the list of players, Do you see 'Records - World' or 'Records - Germany' or 'Records - Berlin' .... (for example)

If you see 'Records - [Zone]' (Zone = Minnesota, Berlin, Iles-de-France, ...), that's your time is not good enough to be in your country ranking and in the World ranking.
If you see 'Records - [Country]', that's your time is in the 10 best times of your country, but not enough to be in the world ranking.

Only the 100 (I think) best players are shown in the World Ranking. Zooz appear in this ranking.
If you are not in the 100 best players of the world, you are limited to your country.
Only the 10 best players of your country are shown in the country ranking.
If you are not in the 10 best players of your country, you are limited to your zone.

Bla.de is perhaps first of Germany on this map, but he his 101th or 400th of world.

Ingame (i think there will be something on maniazone in the future for this), you can only see the ranking corresponding to your level. So you can not see the world Ranking for a map, except make a better time to be in the world ranking :wink:

Skubidou:~

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Post by debr5836 » 19 Nov 2006 06:25

All right, I have some more insight into the formula. I just grinded a bit on puzzle B1 and got 2nd place in the world.

Puzzle B1: world rankings
-------------------------------------------------
FTMT Broken Bones -- 1st place -- 5000sp = (50/1)*100
Mr. Zero (me) -- 2nd place -- 2450sp = (49/2)*100
#RC#DAFFY57 -- 3rd place -- ????sp
FTMT Gued -- 4th place -- 1175sp = (47/4)*100

Stadium B1: world rankings
-------------------------------------------------
Zooz -- 1st place -- 137.6k = (1376/1)*100
Olipo -- 2nd place -- 68.75k = (1375/2)*100
Tiger9 -- 3rd place -- 45.8k = (1374/3)*100


So it look like, at least for the world ranking, the formula is:

(<# people you beat>) / (<# people beating you> + 1) * 100

and NOT

(<# people you beat>) / (<total # people> + 1) * 100

which is how I interpreted/misinterpreted Skub's description. Note that this is also consistent with my "middle of the pack" score of 120.

I'm not sure that I like the formula that is this non-linear, but at least I understand now how the people at the top have scores that are several orders of magnitude over those people in the middle of the pack. I do appreciate that you want to weight the popular tracks much more heavily than the non popular ones (to prevent boosting w/ toy tracks, among other things) -- this formula just might go a little too far in that direction for my taste.

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Post by Skubidou » 19 Nov 2006 09:37

Skubidou wrote:Formula being something like (Number of player after you/Number of player - 1)*100
:wink:

I think the actual formula is in fact what will not allow boosting, because it depends on how much players plays the track, and unlike TMN, you have to pay for an online account, so you can not cheat on this (except if you want to buy 1300 accounts :wink: ).

The actual system is perhaps not the better (time difference could be taken in account). Giving so much point for one track will not help make players playing for less popular tracks, but this is the same as for the Ladder (and the selection of the servers depending on which players are on the server)... some will search for the map/server where they can make points, other don't care :mrgreen:

Skubidou:~

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Post by Scheurhenk » 19 Nov 2006 14:59

Skubidou wrote:But which ranking do you see? Above the list of players, Do you see 'Records - World' or 'Records - Germany' or 'Records - Berlin' .... (for example)

Skubidou:~
Actually I do see the World ranking (I'm Dutch so I even can't see Germans normally). But this seems to be a bug in the ladder. According to TMU I am 8th for Stadium B1, but if I use the formula debr5836 provided, my time is 12th, so it seems I'm missing the best 4 drivers.

I have taken a screenshot. This doesn't seem right to me. Yesterday the best time shown was 24.41.

Image

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