Starforce Protection - Why?!

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by farcar » 12 Apr 2008 02:26

Slig wrote:4) Btw Nadeo (Florent) announced that next TM game will not use StarForce, so why complaining again about it now ?
Because Nadeo are still distributing games that install hidden Starforce drivers without their customer's consent. It's unethical and will (and should) be complained about until these distributions cease.

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by hpbifta » 12 Apr 2008 03:23

same reply here as in the TMN thread.

Erm if you don`t have any form of the drivers installed on your machine during the first run the game (TMS, TMN, TMU,possibly TMO (cant remember there but probably) not TMNF or TMUF) asks you to reset your pc to install some drivers, thats starforce going in. It`s at that point you get your choice. If this doesn`t happen they are already on your pc either from an earlier tm install or possibly from another game which has installed them.

Sorry your argument carries no weight. It is NOT a hidden process. If you say NO you can`t play the game.

Besides the only real big issue with Starforce was that some people complained that it wouldn`t work properly with their drive which would spin up to silly speeds for 20 secs before launching a game and claimed it would wear out their dvd drive motor life. With TMN and TMU (On-line install) there is no issue. Starforce offered $100,000 (or was it a mil, hmm) if someone could PROVE unequivocally that starforce could do this. To date no one has taken them up on their challenge even though if this problem was real it would be easy money. Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by farcar » 12 Apr 2008 03:57

It is a hidden process. There is absolutely no mention of the word 'Starforce' during installation at all. Funny that.
I'm not going to go in to the arguments of how (or if) Starforce can damage hardware as these are already well documented.
My gripe is about Nadeo installing the Starforce drivers without my consent or knowledge. If I had been notified during installation, I would have simply clicked cancel and deleted the installation files. That didn't happen, so I am complaining here. :)

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by Zooz » 12 Apr 2008 11:33

Starforce is a part of the game, which is required to run. You install the game. Therefore, you install Starforce. Is it that hard?

I havent seen any other games that announce what copy protection they will use and allow you to cancel it either.

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by BLaHiTiS » 12 Apr 2008 12:15

or when you install dameon tools :P it t's sudenly accepted that they install custom drivers :P
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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by farcar » 12 Apr 2008 13:21

Zooz wrote:You install the game. Therefore, you install Starforce. Is it that hard?
It is hard when you are not notified that Starforce is being installed. Is it really hard for the Devs to put a notice in the installer? No, it's not. The question is why don't they?
BLaHiTiS wrote:or when you install dameon tools :P it t's sudenly accepted that they install custom drivers :P
I don't use dameon tools or daemon tools. Anyway, the argument that "others do it, so that justifies Nadeo doing it", doesn't deserve a lot of credit in my opinion.

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by BLaHiTiS » 12 Apr 2008 13:54

hmm, but that wasn't really my point.

My point was more that lots of people respond to this in double standards, if it doesn't serve them: even if they woudln't have troubles with them and hear it from others that 'it's bad" they are complaining.

But if it would benifit the user somehow , like if it's a makeshift driver that comunicates lowlevel and could enable you to copy ps3 games, the same people would say YES !

and I'm talking in general really.
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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by Kakkoii » 12 Apr 2008 18:21

BLaHiTiS wrote:hmm, but that wasn't really my point.

My point was more that lots of people respond to this in double standards, if it doesn't serve them: even if they woudln't have troubles with them and hear it from others that 'it's bad" they are complaining.

But if it would benifit the user somehow , like if it's a makeshift driver that comunicates lowlevel and could enable you to copy ps3 games, the same people would say YES !

and I'm talking in general really.
PS3 games can already be copied. :P lol
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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by sfhater28007 » 14 Apr 2008 17:56

hpbifta wrote:Besides the only real big issue with Starforce was that some people complained that it wouldn`t work properly with their drive which would spin up to silly speeds for 20 secs before launching a game and claimed it would wear out their dvd drive motor life. With TMN and TMU (On-line install) there is no issue. Starforce offered $100,000 (or was it a mil, hmm) if someone could PROVE unequivocally that starforce could do this. To date no one has taken them up on their challenge even though if this problem was real it would be easy money. Draw your own conclusions.
Please!. StarForce BROKE my old burner. TMS with SF wouldn't work with a Plextor drive (but it would with a crack). SF wouldn't work with my run-of-the-mill laptop DVD.

The 100K thing?. Bullshit. To begin with, it was only 10K. Also, did you read the conditions?. It was a load of crap.
All the drives in the system should be properly functioning prior to the installation of a StarForce protected product.

After the installation and start-up of StarForce protected product the problem with (CD/DVD read-write malfunction) must exist and be reproduced in any other configuration.
If you can be the first to reproduce this situation in our office, we will be happy to award you with $10 000.00 US, cover your trip to Moscow and pay 2 days’ lodging.
You had to travel to Moscow, pay for accommodation, and hope that a random drive would crash in 2 days (it took mine about 2 months of playing TM once or twice per day to break) or you had to pay for everything. So, who was going to leave his/her day job, travel to Moscow and try to demonstrate the utter sh*t that SF is like that?.

I took a lot of sh*t in the old forum for these opinions, and I don't exactly like to have the same arguments, but seeing people speaking the $10K thing as proof that SF was inocuous and unbreakable angers me. You didn't have problems with SF, I'm glad for you. But I did have problems. I had to go through support to play a game I bought. And nobody paid for my broken burner. So I didn't buy TMU until it was offered on Steam.

Wonder why almost every publisher has dropped StarForce?. Wonder why they changed the protection name to Frontline and now they never say the SF word if they can avoid it?. The torrent thing with Galactic Civilizations 2 didn't help either. Pure mafia. Stardock showed that copy protection doesn't help developers sell more games. On the contrary, they sell less. And they just did the same again with Sins of a Solar Empire. But of course, everything is piracy's fault. Even if we customers stop buying games because we're tired of being treated like thieves, and even bought games can break our hardware.

Oh, and Zooz, StarForce is not part of the game. People can play it cracked and without StarForce, you know.

Sorry that went too long.

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by Gandi » 14 Apr 2008 19:41

I would prefer this topic thread to get locked since it's the same wining over and over again.
If you like a clean windows install you should probably buy a games console and leave your PC for word processing.
And again (for 78th time): It's over! Starforce is history in the TM series :grmblz:

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Re: Starforce Protection - Why?!

Post by Zooz » 14 Apr 2008 21:42

sfhater28007 wrote: Oh, and Zooz, StarForce is not part of the game. People can play it cracked and without StarForce, you know.

Sorry that went too long.
People could also "crack" the game to remove Rally and Coast from the game, and play that. That doesn't mean they're not part of the game.

Ok, locking it, since it's just back to blaming random hardware failures on SF anyway, rather than rational discussion.

Locked